BENEDICT XVI: NEWS, PAPAL TEXTS, PHOTOS AND COMMENTARY

I don't think I can ever 'make up' for the days I have missed on the Forum - which I consider not a great loss in the context of this being the Benedetto XVI Forum, so I will just make do for now with a trasnlation of Pope Francis's 90-minute in-flight news conference on the way back from Rio de Janeiro - after he had pointedly said in brief remarks on the way to Rio that he rarely gives interviews because he finds them 'tiresome' - at which time I felt all my prickles rising because it would seem to have been an unintended but still caustic criticism of Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI who famously did three book-length interviews before he became Pope and one as Pope. But let that be!....Those interview books - each of them very well-received (despite the polarizing controversy caused by the first one which angered all the Vatican-II progressivists) are in the public domain and obviously not found 'tiresome' by readers...

The following is interesting not just for what Pope Francis says but also for capturing his speaking style and thereby his thought process considered as a stream of consciousness, that was always most captivating and fascinating in Benedict XVI for all his logical linearity, innate prudence and economy of words [i.e., he was always 'print-ready', never has to be 'edited'!]. It also reflects how very much 'self-referential' Pope Francis is, in a way none of the previous Popes in our time ever were. And he does tend to fill up his answers with much small talk and repetition (and even puffy pleasantries that one does not usually associate with Popes)...

The in-flight news conference
given by Pope Francis after Rio - Part I
Translated from the Vatican Radio transcript
posted on the IUtalian blogsite
IL SISMOGRAFO
July 30, 2013

FR. LOMBARDI: Now then, dear friends, we have the joy of having with us on this return tip the Holy Father Francis, who has been so kind as to give us rather ample time to make with us an assessment of the trip and to reply with total freedom to your questions. [Would he have replied in less than total freedom???? He is the Pope. He can set his own rules!]]

I will give him the first words for a little introduction and then, we shall start with the list of those who have asked to speak, taking {representatives) from each of the different national and linguistic groups.

Therefore, Holiness, it's for you to begin...

POPE FRANCIS: Good evening and many thanks. I am happy - i was a beautiful trip. Spiritually it did me good. I am rather tired but my heart is happy - and I am well, very well. It has done me good spiritually. To encounter people is good because the Lord works in each of us, he works on the heart, and the wealth of the Lord is such that we can always receive many good things from others. And this is good for me. This, as a first assessment.

Then I must say that the goodness, the heart of the Brazilian people is large - that is true, it is large. They are such a lovable people, who love feasting, who even in suffering always find a way to see good in every occasion. And this is good - they are a happy people though they have suffered much. It is contagious, this merriment of the Brazilians - it is contagious. They have a large heart, this people...

Then I must say of the organizers, both on our part and on the part of the Brazilians - that I felt as if I was in front of a computer, an incarnate computer... Really, everything was precisely timed ['cronometrata' - chronomeasured], was it not? But beautifully.

Then we had problems with hypotheses about security. But with security here, security there - there was not a single incident in all of Rio de Janeiro these days, and everything was spontaneous. With less security, I was able to be with the people, embrace them, without being in a bulletproof car. [With all due respect, Yor Holiness, John Paul II and Benedict XVI managed to do all that too even with the bulletproof Popemobile. How many more people did you touch, how many more babies did you kiss, than they did, because you rode in an open-sided car than they did in the Popemobile? A few dozen more, perhaps. Certainly not hundreds more. much less thousands!]

It is the security of trusting the people [Previous Popes did not trust the people?]. Of course, there is always the danger that there might be some madman - well, yes, that there could be a madman who will do something. But the Lord is also there, yes? [He is fond of interjecting 'Eh?', which I have translated as '..yes?"] But to create a bulletproof space between a bishop and the people is madness too, and I prefer this madness. To be 'out of touch' [he uses the word 'fuori - which means outside] is to risk another madness - this madness of being out of touch. [Why must being 'in touch' be literal? After all, he can only be 'touched' by a very insignificant few compared to the crowds - and everyone knows that! I know I am a Biblical near-illiterate, but I don't think Jesus set an example in this respect! Even if to many, he was the Messiah, the people were content to acclaim him with hosannahs on that last entry into Jerusalem, not mob him as he rode the humble donkey into the city! There is this element of very self-conscious vanity in the Pope's 'populist' gestures that has bothered me from the beginning as being the antithesis of humility. Closeness is good for everyone. [i.e., John {aul II and Benedict XVI were wrong to have agreed to use the bulletproof Popemobile on their travels because that meant they did not want 'closeness' with the people??? They used the open jeep in St. Peter's Square and reached out spontaneously at St. Peter's or elsewhere - whenever the occasion presented itself, though not without the deliberate ostentation of 'making a statement' with which Pope Francis reaches out! How many times during WYD did the sycophant press trumpet the word that with Pope Francis, he himself has become the message, without any reservations or conditions to the statement. Really? Shouldn't Christ alone be the message? The justification would be: "It cannot be wrong if I can call attention to Christ by calling attention to myself", which is not exactly a contemporary restatement of St. Paul's "Not I but Christ lives in me!"...Because no one points it out, a narcissism is being abetted in which Francis implies a criticism of his predecessors with every gesture and statement he makes that underscores implicitly how 'different' he is from them]

The organization of WYD, not just this precisely, but eveything - the artistic part, the religious part, the catechetical part, the lituirgical part - it was all most beautiful. They all had a capacity to express themeselves in art, right? They did things which were very beautiful, most beautiful,

Then, Aprecida. For me, it was a strong religious experience. I remember the Fith Cofnerence [V General Cofnerence of the Conference of Latin American and Caribbean Bishops, held there in 2007[. I went thre to pray, to pray. I wanted to be there by nyself, hidden - but there was a most impressive crowd. So it was not possible [to be alone] - I knew that before arriving, yes? And we prayed - we all did.

I don't know... one thing, also with you, right? I am told that your work has been very good - I have not read the newspapers these days, I did not have time, I did not watch TV, nothing - but they tell me that you have done a good job - good, good, good. Thank you, thank you for the collaboration you have given us in this.

Then, the numbers! The number of the young people present, yes? I could not believe it, but today, the Governatorate spoke of three million, right? I could not believe it. But from the altar - this is true (I do not know if you, some of you, were at the altar - but from the altar, the entire beach was filled, to the very end, four kilometers of it, yes? So many young people! Mons. Tempesta [Archbishop of Rio] told me they came from 178 countries. 178! Even the Vice President gave me this number, so it is true. This is important! Quite a strong statement!

FR. LOMBARDI: Thank you. Now, let us give the floor first to Juan de Lara, from EFE [the Spanish news agency] - He is a Spaniard and this is the last trip he will make with us, so we are happy to give hin this chance...

][he question and answer are in Spanish. Most of the news conference is held in Italian, except for the questions by the Spanish and Poertuguese-speaking journalists. The Pope's answers were all in italian, except he would start answering a Spanish question in Spanish then switch to Italian.]
JUAN DE LARA: Holiness, good evening. In the name of all my companions, we want to thank you for these days that you have gifted us, the work that you have done, and the effort you put into it. In the name of the Spanish media, we wish to thank you for the prayers offered for the victims of the train accident in Santiago de Compsotela. Many thanks.

The first question has little to do with the trip, but we will take advantage of this opportunity so I wish to ask you: Holiness, in these four months that you have been Pope, we have seen that you have created various commissions to reform the Vatican Curia. I wish to ask you - what kind of reform do you have in mind, are you contemplating to suppress IOR, the so-called Vatican bank? Thank you.
THE POPE: The steps that I have been taking these past four months and a half come from two sources: The content of what has to be done, all of it, comes from the general congregations that we cardinals held. There were things that we cardinals decided we would ask of the new Pope. I remember I asked for many things, thinking it would be from someone else [Laughter]...So we said, this must be done. etc. For example, the commission of eight cardinals - we know it is important to have consultants who are 'outsiders' [he uses the English term], not the consultants who are already there, but outsiders. And this goes along the line - here I make somewhat of an abstraction in order to explain it -of increasingly maturing the relationship between Synodality and Primacy. In effect, these eight cardinals represent synodality, helping so that the various episcopates around the world can eexress themselves in the governance of the Church.

Many proposals have been made that have yet to be put into practice.[But don't they have to be studied first?], such as the reform of the Synod Secretariat, in its methodology: Such as, the Post-Synodal Commission should have a permanent consultative character; such as, cardinal's consistories with themes that are not just formal, as for canonizations, but also thematic....In any case, the aspect of content [of the reform] comes from that [the pre-Conclave congregations].

The other aspect is opportunity. I must admit that it cost me nothing after a month of the Pontificate to set up the commission of eight cardinals... The economic part I had thought of dealing with next year, because it is not the most important thing to be done. However, the agenda changed because of circumstances that you are familiar with, which are in the public domain - problems cropped up and they had to be faced.

The first, the problem of IOR - how to channel it, how to delineate it, how to re-formulate it, how to cure what needs to be cured. So, we have the first reference commission. You are familiar with the chirograph, what it requires the commission to do, who the members are, etc.

Then there was a meeting of the 15 cardinals who are involved with the economic aspects of the Holy See. They come from all parts of the world. And while preparing for that meeting, the necessity emerged for naming a reference commission regarding the entire economy of the Holy See. And so, the economic problem came up ahead of schedule, but these things happen in the exercise of government, right? One is going in this direction, but they kick the ball towards another goal and you have to block it. But that's how life is, and that is what makes it beautiful. I will repeat the answer to the question he asked about IOR - forgive me, I was speaking Castilian... [He switches to Italian.]

About that question regarding IOR, I do not know how it will end up - some say it would be better if it was a bank, others that it should be an assistance fund, others say to close it down. These opinions are being heard. I do not know. I trust in the work of the IOR personnel whp are working on this, and also in the Commission [which one?]

The president of IOR stays, but the director and vice-director have resigned. I do not know how this story will end, but it is good that one seeks, one tries to find a solution. [To what? It seems, even from Moneyval's investigations, that the one single problem is to screen all IOr depositors carefully so that no depositor could possibly use IOR to launder money. The problem is that the pre-Conclave congregations, including the cardinal who became Pope, have adapted the MSM's general anathematizing of IOR since the 1980s, seeing only its bad points and refusing to see the changes that have taken place during Benedict XVI's Pontificate] We are human this way. We must find out what is best. But one thing sure - the characteristics of IOR, whether it is a bank, an assistance fund, or whatever - must be transparency and honesty. That's the way it ought to be. [No acknowledgment of what was done in the previous Pontificate - and of the historical step towards transparency in the law of December 2010 and opening up the Vatican to Moneyval inspection!]

FR. LOMBARDI: Thanks a lot, Holiness. Now we come to a representative of the Italian media, whom you know every well, Andrea Tornielli, who will ask you a question in the name of the Italian group.

TORNIELLI: Holy Father, my question is perhaps indiscreet, The photograph of you, when we left Rome, going up the airplane steps carrying a black bag, was instantly seen round the world, and there have been articles everywhere that have commented on this novelty. It has never happened, let us say, that a Pope boards a plane with his hand luggage. And there is also speculation on what the black bag contained. My questions are - 1) why did you carry the bag yourself and not by one of your aides, and two, can you tell us what was inside? Thank you. [So the primary papal biographer sets up a question to further 'humanize' the Pope!]
THE POPE: It didn't have the key to set off an atomic bomb! I carried it because I have always done so when I travel... What was inside it? A razor, the breviary, my appointment book, something to read - I brought one about St. Therese of Lisieux to whom I am devoted ... I always carried my briefcase when I travelled, it's normal... I don't know, it seems rather strange to me, what you said, that the photograph went round the world, yes? But we must get used to it, to being normal, yes? To the normalcy of life. I do not know, Andrea, if I have answered you... [But to be consistent, he should have carried it with him getting off the plane in Rio, getting on and off the plane to and from Aparecida, getting back on again for the trip home, and getting off the plane in Ciampino. Maybe he did - I didn't see the coverage. Yet, normal - and practical - is also for VIPs like Popes to go up and down plane steps unencumbered. Not normal is for no one among the papal aides to have insisted "No, Holiness, let us carry it for you", as they apparently did on the subsequent opportunities, with the Pope's acquiescence... Rather disingenuous to be surprised the photograph would be gobbled up by the world media...

I digress, but Tornielli's Introduction to the insta-book he wrote about Benedict XVI when he became Pope was his anecdote of how he first met Cardinal Ratzinger being on the same plane with him on an flight inside Italy - and how the cardinal carried his own luggage (not just hand luggage), lined up dutifully like any other passenger, and did not use the VIP waiting room. The same cardinal who, for more than 20 years, crossed St. Peter's Square daily six days a week to go to work, carrying a well-worn briefcase...

FR LOMBARDI: Now let us hear from a Portuguese-speaking representative - Aura Miguel of Radio Renascenxca.

AURA MIGUEL: Holiness, I wanted to ask - why do you ask so insistently that people pray for you? It is not normal or habitual to hear a Pope ask so much for people to pray for him... [Yes, it is normal and habitual, except that in the case of Benedict XVI, he usually said, "Pray for the Successor of Peter that he may...." or "Pray for the success of this trip..." Only in his installation Mass did he say, "Pray for me that I may not flee from the wolves..."]
THE POPE: I have always asked this. When I was a priest, I did so, but not as often. I began to ask it with some frequency when I became a bishop, because I felt that if the Lord does not help us in the work of going ahead of the People of God, one cannot do so... I truly feel I have so many limitations, yes?, with so many problems, and that I am a sinner, you know... so I must ask for prayers. But it comes from within me, yes? I ask even Our Lady to pray for me to the Lord. It's a habit, but one that comes from the heart, and also the need that I have for prayers in my work. I feel that I must ask for it... I do not know, it's just that way...

FR LOMBARDI: Now we go to the English-speaking group, first, our colleague from Reuters...

PHILLIP PULLELLA: Holiness, in the name of the English-speaking group, thank you for your availability. Our colleague De Lara already asked the question we had wanted to ask, so I will continue along that line. In your attempts to make changes, I remember you told a group from Latin America that there are so many holy people who work in the Vatican, along with those who are 'less saintly'. Have you found any resistance to your desire to change things at the Vatican? And the second question is: You live in a very austere way, you have remained in Santa Marta, etc. Do you want your co-workers, including the cardinals, to follow your example and perhaps, live in community, or is this just a personal thing for you?
THE POPE: These changes ... They come also from two aspects: that which we cardinals had requested, and that which comes from my own personality. You point out that I have remained in Santa Marta. Because I could not live by myself in the Apostolic Palace, which is not luxurious, yes? It is large but not luxurious. But I cannot live by myself [DIDN'T HE, ALL THE TIME HE WAS ARCHBISHOP OF BUENOS AIRES IN A 2-ROOM APARTMENT, AND WAS HE NOT WIDELY PRAISED FOR THAT???] or with just a small group of people. I need people, I need to meet people, to talk with them. [How much of his typical day is spent socializing with his fellow hotel guests in Santa Marta?]

That is why when the boys from the Jesuit schools asked me, "Why [are you living in Santa Marta]? Is it for austerity, as a sign of poverty, why?" No, no, I said, it is simply for psychiatric motivations [He obviously meant' psychological'] - it is simply that psychologically, I cannot be by myself.

Each one must carry on with his life in his own way, his own lifestyle, his own way of being. The cardinals who work in the Curia, for instance - they do not live in wealth and luxury. They live in ordinary apartments, which are austere. They are austere -those that I know of, who have these apartments assigned to them by the APSA [the Vatican agency in charge of Holy See properties], right?

But there is one other thing I wish to say. Each one ought to live as the Lord asks him to. But I believe that austerity - austerity in general - is necessary for all of us who work in the service of the Church. There are so many nuances in austerity - each one must find his own way.

Regarding saints in the Curia - this is true, yes? -there are saints there: cardinals, priests, bishops, nuns, laymen - people who pray, people who work hard, even people who work with the poor but do so without fanfare. I know of some who are involved in feeding the poor and who, in their free time, go to minister in some church or other. There are saints in the Curia.

But there are also some who are not so saintly, no?, and they are the ones who make the most news. You all know that a tree which falls in the forest makes more noise than the whole forest which is growing. And this is painful to me, when such things happen. There are some who create scandal - some. We have this monsignor who is in jail, I think he is still in jail. But he did not go to prison because he was 'like the Blessed Imelda' [apparently an Argentine saying to indicate someone is holy] He was no Blessed One! These are scandals which are bad for the Church.

One thing which I have never said but which I have come to realize: I think that the Curia has fallen a bit below the level it had at one time, the time of the old Curial figures - the profile was of persons who were faithful, who did their work. We need such persons. [Isn't this the usual evocation of an imagined Golden Age that never was? The Roman Curia has always had all the inherent faults of a bureaucracy, even if it also always had more than its share of holy men compared to secular bureaucracies. But there have been powerful and influential curial heads in the past who were not exactly all benign - Cardinal Ratzinger was a luminous exception. And as Vittorio Messori has pointed out, the Curial bureaucracy - middle level management downward - suffered considerable loss of quality after Vatican II because, in the wake of the priest shortage and formational deficiencies, the world's dioceses could no longer afford to send their 'best and brightest' to serve the Curia in Rome but kept them home, with the result that those recruited to serve in the Curia are necessarily second-rank personnel. But second rank does not necessarily mean incompetent or corrupt. Now, Pope Francis concedes there are holy men and even saints in the Curia. But during the pre-Conclave congregations and the Vatileaks furor that preceded it, all the cardinals, Cardinal Bergoglio among them, seemed maniacally happy to paint the entire Curia black indiscriminately. I felt then that the Curial heads should have stood up and defended their respective offices and personnel from being all tarred with the broad brush of sanctimonious castigation by their fellow cardinals. Maybe they did, and we just weren't told about it. (They should have taken their case to the media, to begin with, not just sit back and be punching bags!])Because the narrative etched in stone before the Conclave was that no Curia had ever been as evil and corrupt as the Curia in Benedict XVI's Pontificate - despite an absolute lack of evidence. andnot even anecdotal tidbits, to support this view!]

The profile of the Curial figure of old - I would say that there are some who fit it today, but not as many as in the past. We should have more of them.

Do I find resistance in the Curia? If there is, I still have to see it. It's true I have not yet done very much, but I can say that yes, I have found help, and I have even found loyal people. For example, I like it when someone tells me, "I don't agree with you", and I have met some who said so, who sa
y, "I don't see it your way, and I disagree - but that's just me, and you will do what you think is right". That is a genuine co-worker, yes? And I have found such persons in the Curia. Which is good.

But if there are those who can say, "Oh, that is good, that is good, that is good" when speaking to me but then say the contrary to others, I have not met them yet. Resistance? In four months, how much resistance can you find?

FR LOMBARDI: Then let us go on to a Brazilian, Patricia Zorzan, and afterwards Monsiuer Izoard, so we will have a Frenchman...

PATRICIA ZORZAN (at 28 mins 08 secs of the newscon) (Her question is in Portuguese): Speaking in behalf of Brazilians - society has changed, young people have changed, and in Brazil, we see a lot of young people. You did not speak at all about abortion nor about same-sex unions. In Brazil, they have just approved a law that broadens the right to abort and another one that allows 'marriage' between persons of the same sex. Why did you not speak about these issues?
THE POPE (replying in Spanish): The Church has already expressed herself perfectly on those matters. It was not necessary to go back to them. In the same way that I did not speak about swindling or about lying or other offenses about which Church doctrine is clear.

ZORZAN: But these are matters that are of interest to young people...
THE POPE: Yes, but it was not necessary to speak to them about that but about positive things that can open the way for them, am I right? Besides, the young people know quite well what the position of the Church is.

ZORZAN: And what is the position of Your Holiness. Could you tell us? [Man, she is militant!]
THE POPE: [My position is] that of the Church. I am a son of the Church. {No, you won't get him to elaborate on that - he has yet to do so, and if at all, he would not do so on an inflight news conference. We can all imagine how differently Benedict XVI would have answered Ms. Zorzan.]

FR LOMBARDI: Now let us return to the Spanish-speaking group. Dario Menor Torres... Oh, excuse me, first there is Monsieur Izoard whom we called on earlier, so someone from the French group. And then, Dario Menor...

ANTOINE MARIE IZOARD (of I-Media): Good day, Holiness. In behalf of my French colleagues on this flight - there are nine of us: From a Pope who has said he does not like to do interviews, we are truly grateful for this opportunity. Since March 13, you have presented yourself as the Bishop of Rome, with great and strong insistence. We would like to understand the profound meaning of this insistence - if perhaps, more than collegiality, it speaks more to ecumenism, of being 'primus inter pares' in the Church?
THE POPE: Yes, about this... one should not go too far ahead of what is said. The Pope is a bishop - the Bishop of Rome, and because he is the Bishop of Rome, he is the Successor of Peter, Vicar of Christ, right? And there are other titles, too. But the first title is 'Bishop of Rome', and everything comes from there.

To say or think that this means being 'primus inter pares', no! - that is not a consequence of being Bishop of Rome. Very simply, this is the first title of the Pope, yes? - Bishop of Rome. Of course, there are also the others...

I think you said something about ecumenism - and I think that this may play a little bit into ecumenism, yes. But nothing more than that...

FR. LOMBARDI; Now, Dario Menor of La Razon, in Spain.

DARIO MENOR TORRES (at 27 mins 44 secs): I have one question about your feelings. You said something a week ago about a boy who asked you how you felt, if it was possible for someone to imagine how it would be to become Pope, and if one can desire that - the inference being that one has to be mad to want it. After your first experience with multitudes this week in Rio, could you tell us how it feels being the Pope, is it very difficult, are you happy being Pope, has your faith grown because you are Pope, or perhaps on the contrary, have you had doubts? Thank you.
THE POPE: To do the work of a bishop is a beautiful thing. The problem is when one seeks the job - that is not so beautiful, and it does not come from the Lord. But when the Lord calls a priest to become a bishop, then that is beautiful. There is always the danger of thinking that one is superior to others, one is not like the others, one feels a bit like a prince... These are dangers and sins, yes? But the work of a bishop is beautiful, because he helps his brothers to move forward.

The bishop leading the faithful, to show them the way. The bishop among the faithful, to help foster communion. The bishop behind the faithful, because many times the faithful have the scent of the track. That is what the bishop should be.

I was asked whether I like being bishop. I like being a bishop. I like it. In Buenos Aires, I was so happy, so happy! I was happy, it is true. The Lord helped me there. But I was happy as a priest, and I am happy as a bishop. So yes, I like it.

[Someone asks]: What about being Pope?
THE POPE: That too, that too! When the Lord places you there, if you do what the Lord wants, you are happy. But, this is my feeling, yes? This is how I feel.

FR LOBARDI: Now, another Italian - Salvatore Mazza of Avvenire.

SALVATORE MAZZA: I cannot even get up. Excuse me - I cannot get up because of all the files I have around my feet... We saw you these days in Rio - full of energy even in the late evening, and we see you now, on an airplane that is not quite steady, serenely standing without a moment of hesitation. We want to ask you - much is being said about your future trips - to Asia, to Jerusalem, to Argentina... Do you already have a calendar that is more or less fixed for your travels next year, or is everything still pending?
THE POPE: For sure, for sure? Nothing yet. But I can say something of what is being considered. But first, September 22, to Cagliari, is definite. Then October 4, to Assisi. Still within Italy, I would like to be able to go visit my folks [his parents' relatives in the Piedmont region] for a day, because, poor things, they have been asking me, and we have such good relations! But just one day.

Outside Italy, Patriarch Bartholomew I wants a meeting to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the meeting between Paul VI and Athenagoras in Jerusalem. The Israeli government has issued a special invitation for me to visit Israel. I think there is also one from the Palestinian Authority. We are thinking about this - we don't know yet whether to go or not to go...

To Latin America, I don't think there is a possibility of returning [soon], because the Latin American Pope has just made his first trip to Latin America - well, arrivederci! We have to wait a bit.

I think I may go to Asia, but this is all up in the air. I have an invitation to visit Sri Lanka and also the Philippines... But one must go to Asia, right? Because Pope Benedict did not have time to go to Asia, and it is important. [Oh yes, he did - The Middle East is in Asia, right?, and he visited Jordan, Israel, the Palestinian territories and Lebanon.]

To go to Argentina - I think that at this time, one can wait, because all these trips have a certain priority. I wanted to go to Constantinople (Istanbul) this September 30 to visit Bartholomew I, but it is not possible, It could bot be fitted on my agenda. So if we meet each other, it will be in Jerusalem.

[Someone asks about Fatima] Fatima? Yes, that's true, there's also an invitation from Fatima. That's true, that's true. There's an invitation to go to Fatima.

[Someone asks] Did you say September 30 or November 30?
THE POPE: November, November - the feast of St. Andrew.

FR. LOMBARDI: Well now, let us go to the United States - we call on Ada Messia of CNN...

ADA MESSIA: Salve! You are holding up better than me.... No, I'm fine. I'm fine. My question is: when you met with the young people from Argentina, you told them, perhaps in jest, perhaps half-seriously, that you sometimes feel you are 'caged' - We would like to know what you were referring to exactly...
THE POPE: You know how often I have wanted to walk the streets of Rome... Because in Buenos Aires, I liked to walk the streets, I liked it very much! In this sense, I feel rather caged. But I must say this - of the good people of the Vatican police - they are good, good, good, and I am grateful to them. Now they are allowing me to do something more. I believe... but it is their duty to look after security, right? I feel caged in that sense. I would love to walk the streets, but I understand that it is not possible. I understand - and that is the sense in which I meant being caged. Since it was habitual for me - as we would say in Buenos Aires, I was a street priest ('padre callejero').

FR LOMBARDI: Now we call on another Portuguese, Marcio Campos. I also ask Mr. Guenois of Le Figaro to come nearer for he will be next....

THE POPE: I asked about the time because they should be serving dinner now. Are you all hungry?

[Everyone] No, no!

MARCIO CAMPOS: Your Holiness, Holy Father...To hear the greetings of the people of Brazil, their merriment, their embrace ... We wish to thank you, my colleagues from the Brazilian newspapers, whom I represent with this question. Holy Father, it is difficult to accompany a Pope, very difficult. We are all very tired - you seem very well, but we are all tired... In Brazil, the Catholic Church has lost faithful in these last years. Is the Movement of Charismatic Renewal a possibility to avoid that the Catholic faithful move over to the Pentecostal Church or other pentecostal churches? Many thanks for your presence, and many thanks for being here with us....
THE POPE: It is very true what you said about the decline in the number of our faithful. It is true, it is true. But there are statistics... We spoke of this problem with the Brazilian bishops at the meeting we had yesterday. You asked about the Movement of Charismatic Renewal. I will tell you one thing. At the end of the 1970s and the start of the 1980s, I could not see what they were. Once, speaking of them, I said, "They seem to confuse a liturgical celebration with a samba school!" That is what I said. I regretted it. I came to know better. It is also true that the movement, with good advisers, has embarked on a beautiful path. And now I think that this movement has done much good for the Church in general. In Buenos Aires, I often convened them, and once a year, I said Mass with all of them in the Cathedral. After I was 'converted' and I saw how much good they were doing, I always favored them. Because at this time in the history of the Church - and here, I shall broaden my response - I think the movements are necessary. They are a grace of the Spirit. But, some ask, how does one govern a movement which is so free? But even the Church is free, yes? The Holy Spirit does as he wills. He then does the work of harmonizing. Movements are a grace - those movements which embody the spirit of the Church.

That is why I believe that the Movement for Charismatic Renewal does not just serve to prevent some faithful from passing over to the Pentecostal confessions. They serve the Church herself. And each one seeks his own movement according to his own charism - wherever the Spirit leads....

[I must say I find it most admirable that Pope Francis clearly admits to mistakes he has made in perception this about the Movement for Charismatic Renewal, and later, in what he says about the many good and holy men he has found in the Roman Curia to whom he wishes to 'render justice'.]

[Off-field question - not transcribed]
THE POPE (in Spanish): I am tired.

FR LOMBARDI: Now then, Jean Guenois of Le Figaro for the French group...

JEAN MARIE GUENOIS: Holy Father, I have a question along with my colleague from La Croix: You said that the Church without women loses her fecundity. What concrete measures will you take about women? for example [will there be] a female diaconate, or a woman head of a Curial dicastery? And a very tiny technical question. You said you are tired. Is there any special feature installed for the return trip? Thank you, Holiness.
THE POPE: Let's start with the last question. This plane has no special installations. Up front, I have a beautiful seat, but it's ordinary, it's what everyone has. I asked that a letter be sent, as well as a telephone call, to make clear that I did not want any special installations on the plane. Is that clear? [But the letter and telephone call were unnecessary - since according to Fr. Lombardi, Alitalia had made no special installations for Benedict XVI. fr. Lombardi, BTW, also denied that any such letter had been written to Alitalia. And now, he's been shown to be wrong again. (As he was when he denied that Benedict XVI had anything to do with the then yet-unreleased encyclical on faith, after the Pope had told some Italian bishops that his first encyclical would be 'the work of four hands'.) I think everyone understands: If Popes take ordinary bedrooms without any frills in monasteries or nunciatures instead of taking a five-star hotel suite as other VIPs of far lesser rank do, why would they even think of asking for frills during a flight?]
Secondly, women. A Church without women would be like the Apostolic College without Mary. The role of women in the Church is not only that of motherhood, being the mother of the family, but it is stronger: it is the icon of the Virgin herself, of Our lady, she who helps the Church to grow. Just think about it - that Our Lady is more important than the Apostles, right? She is more important. The Church is feminine - she is the Church, the Spouse, the mother.

But that women in the Church must only be...I don't know how this is said in Italian - the role of women in the Church should not just be limited to being mother. worker, a limited role. No, it is another thing altogether.

The Popes - Paul VI wrote something very beautiful about women - but I think that one must go farther in the explicitation of the role and charism of women. One cnanot understand the Church without women, those women who are active in the Church, who can carry it forward. I am thinking of an example which has nothing to do with the Church but it is a historical example - in Latin America, in Paqraguay. I consider the women of Paraguay the most glorious women of Latin America. Are you from Paraguay? After the war, that country was left with eight women for every man, and the women made a rather difficult choice: to bear children in order to save the nation, the culture, the faith and the language.

In the Church, ne must think of women in this perspective, of making risky choices as women. This must be explained better. I think that we still have to make a profound theology on women in the Church. She can only do this or that, now she can be an altar server, now she can be a lector, or be president of Caritas... But there is much more to women. We need to have a profound theology of women. So this is what I think, yes?

FR. LOMBARDI: For the Spanish group, we now have Pablo Ordaz of El Pais.

PABLO ORDAS: We wish to know about your working relationship - not so much the friendship - but the collaboration with Benedict XVI. There has been no similar circumstance before. Do you have frequent contacts and is he helping you in your responsibilities? Many thanks.
THE POPE: I think the last time there were two Popes, or three, they didn't talk to each other. [Laughter.] - they were fighting to see who was the true Pope. There were as many as three in the Western Schism... [He began the answer in Spanish but continues in Italian at 47 mins 06 secs]

There is something that distinguishes my relationship with Benedict XVI: I love him and wish him the best. I have always wished him well. For me, he is a man of God, a humble man, a man who prays... I was very happy when he was elected Pope. And even when he decided to resign. He has been an example for me - a great one! A great one. Only a great man can do what he did. A man of God and a man of prayer.

Now he lives in the Vatican, and some have asked me, "How can this be - to have two Popes in the Vatican? Doesn't he encumber you? Will he not lead a revolution against you?" All these things are being said, right? But I have found a way to answer this: "It is like having Grandpa at home", but a wise Grandpa. When a grnadfather lives with a family, he is venerated, he is loved, he is listened to. He is a man of prudence and would not get mixed up [in what is none of his business].

I have told him many times. "But, Holiness, you receive guests, you have your own life now, but come be with us..." He came, for the inauguration and blessing of the statue of St. Michael...

So, the statement says everything for me: It is like having Grandpa at home, or my own father. If I had any difficulty or something I do not understand, I would call him. But, some may well ask, "Can you do that?"

When I went to speak to him about that great problem opened up by Vatileaks, he told me everything he knew with simplicity, in the spirit of service. There is one thing that I am not sure you know, I think you do, but I am not sure. When he spoke to us [cardinals] in what was his farewell address to us on FebruaRY 28, he said to us: "Among you is the future Pope. I promise him my obedience". He is great! This is a great man!

FR LOMBARDI: Now, we shall hear from another Brazilian, Ana Fereira, to be followed by Gian Guido Vecchi, for the Italians.

ANA FEREIRA: Holy Father, good evening. And thank you. I wish to say Thank you so many times. Thank you for having brought such joy to Brazil, and thanks also for answering our questions. We journalists love to ask questions... I wish to know why yesterday, you spoke to the bishops of Brazil about the participation of women in our Church. I wish to understand better: What should our participation be in the Church? And what do you think about the ordination of women as priests? What should be our position in the Church?
THE POPE: I would like to explain a bit more about what I said on the participation of women in the Church. It cannot be limited to their being altar girls or president of Caritas or catechists. They ought to be much more, profoundly more, even mystically so, as in what I said about a theology of women.

With reference to ordination of women priests, the Church has spoken and said NO. John Paul II said so, with a definitive formulation. That is closed, that door, but I also want to tell you one thing about this. I have said it, but I repeat: Our Lady, Mary, was more important than all the Apostle bishops and deacon priests. [I am obviously no theologian, but on the level of common sense, that is comparing apples and oranges. Mary was on a plane completely different and above that of the Apostles - Mary was a truly unique being, there will never be another, one who was predestined to be the 'Mother of God', the only human being after the Fall to have been untainted by original sin. The only thing all other women have in common with her is that we are female.]

Women in the Church, are more important than bishops and priests. [That is the sort of sweeoing generalization that I cannot imagine any other contemporary Pope doing!] How? That is what we must seek to explain better, because I believe that there is a theological deficiency on this matter. Thank you.

[I have been given a warning I have not seen before - that the text is too long at this point, so I will break off now, and resume the rest later...]