In the following interview, Cardinal Marc Ouellet, whom news reports after the Conclave said led the first two ballots and then asked his supporters to switch their votes to Cardinal Bergoglio - does set an example for how one can speak positively of both Pope Francis and emeritus Pope Benedict in the same interview. The first cardinal I have seen to have done this. I believe it's also the first time I've seen a candidate Pope asked directly about his candidacy after the Conclave.
Cardinal Ouellet on Vatileaks,
Benedict’s act of faith
and the new Pope
A conversation with
Father Raymond J. de Souza
Wednesday, March 20, 2013
In Rome for the election of a new pope, Father Raymond J. de Souza, a Roman Catholic priest for the Archdiocese of Kingston, Ont., and editor-in-chief of
Convivium, a magazine about faith in Canadian public life, met with Canadian Cardinal Marc Ouellet, much touted as a papal contender, at the Vatican.
We have a new pope elected, Pope Francis. Could you tell us why this man was chosen?
This man was chosen because the College of Cardinals had a sense that the time was right for a leader coming from South America and this was a man of great authority in the area.
I’ve known him for many years, we are good friends and, at the meeting of the Latin American Episcopacy in 2007, in Aparecida, Brazil, he was the main figure who encouraged this continental mission. He came to Quebec City [in 2008] out of friendship for me and to support me because usually he doesn’t accept outside invitations.
He barely comes to Rome—only when it’s absolutely necessary. Because he is a pastor: he’s concerned with his people. I think we’ve made a great choice. And it will bear fruit in the life of the Church.
Many of the cardinals have said they don’t know him very well. What do you know about him that makes you hopeful?
Simplicity. And he’s a good shepherd, very close to his flock. Last Sunday, he was like a parish priest: he did the Mass and then he went out and greeted the people. This is extraordinary. For me, the main encouragement for the people in the field is his election. The priests, deacons, pastoral agents will identify with him.
You spent time in Colombia so you have more experience than most Canadian or European bishops with Latin America. Did you get to know Cardinal Bergoglio then or afterwards?
Not when I lived there. I was a member of the Pontifical Commission for Latin America even before being at the Congregation for Bishops. On the occasion of these plenary [sessions] we would meet and talk and we had common friends in Rome. I can say we shared a common vision. He’s a man of experience and I think he’ll be a reformer, too. The name Francis is a conscious choice.
He will certainly act in the Curia;
we know there is a need of reform, but reform in the sense to regain moral credibility. [Finally, someone who states the problem correctly! The damage done by the irresponsible interpretations of Vatileaks to the moral credibility of the Curia reinforced the great damage already done to the moral credibility of the Church as a whole by abusive priests in the eyes of 'the world' as represented by the all-pervasive mass media and the public opinion they are able to shape more and more effectively.]
This was an important factor.
The Vatileaks did great damage to the Church. Bad information, all kinds of comments that you couldn’t necessarily contradict and very secretive. I think he’ll be able to do something for that, too.
We need a broader vision—beyond Europe. There is a great need of support of Christianity in Latin America to counteract the influence of the Pentecostals in particular. So his election is a great encouragement. It will also have political weight. Not because he’ll be involved in politics but because it will strengthen Catholicism in Argentina, for example. It will force governments to be more respectful of the Catholic community, of Catholic culture in these countries. It’s really good news.
You are a younger cardinal but you’ve participated in two conclaves, one in 2005 and one in 2013. Both conclaves elected a Pope on the first full day. What has the experience been like for you?
Very good. It’s basically a spiritual experience. When popes were heads of states with great properties it was very difficult to elect a pope because there were many material interests involved, political interests involved. Thank God, we got rid of this. So the more you go forward, the more the College of Cardinals is autonomous.
You’re not bound to a context; for example, at this time, the political context of Italy is very uncertain. But the College of Cardinals - there are many Italians in it - but the great majority could make a decision without being conditioned by the local politics. This is a great freedom for the Church. And the combination of the prayer, the intense prayer of the whole Church, and the wisdom of the College of Cardinals, is a great formula to elect a pope, to be free and to give to the world a surprise—a positive one.
One of the great surprises was the resignation of Pope Benedict. He was not only your pope but you were also a student of his...—
Not so much a student of his. But I would say we had close theological visions. I’m more a disciple of [Hans urs] von Balthasar [the Catholic theologian] and [Benedict] is a great admirer of von Balthasar. When he went to Castel Gandolfo he brought von Balthasar’s
Theological Aesthetics to reread.
Do you hope that he has a continuation?
First, I think he did three times what we could have expected from him, being elected at 78. It’s extraordinary what he did, to write his own books. I said and I repeat: a great doctor of the Church. His homilies will remain as a heritage to be meditated. He’s not just a theologian without a philosophy underneath. So we have a lot to think about after his pontificate and after his intellectual contribution. What he did with his books is he renewed theological exegesis. He bridged a gap between theology and exegesis — extraordinary! We needed that badly. We can build on that for the future.
In the days before the election there was a great excitement in Canada for the possibility of the guillotine to fall on your neck, if I can put it in that unusual way— [The metaphor was first used by Benedict XVI describing to German delegations his feelings as he realized at the Conclave that he was going to be elected.]
[
laughs] Yes.
Maybe you could comment on what that was like for you?
This time was very special for me and my family, an incredible experience and a positive one. Even my family told me, “Oh, we’ve discovered chapters of your life we didn’t know very well, like your 10 years in Latin America.” They [the media] interviewed my friends and people with whom I’m still in contact — wonderful.
It was a difficult exercise for me. I had to be prepared. Not by ambition, but just by reasoning. I told the media, “In the position I’m in, who knows what can happen.”
Were you afraid at all?
Less than before because I had been working with the Pope [Benedict] so closely.
Out of what I was doing with him I could imagine what he was doing with the other chiefs of the dicasteries [departments in the Vatican] and I was part of other congregations — a plenary here and there. I’m very much aware of the whole situation of the Church and I learned so much about situations in the different continents where I’ve studied dioceses to provide for bishops. So all these things told me I had a certain preparation for that but, you know, there are many factors. I’m convinced this was a good choice. His first steps and gestures confirm it. We needed a good shepherd, close to the people. This is already a success. There will be reform: he is free, completely free, he has no link whatsoever . . .
No link to what, Your Eminence?
To inside the Vatican. And he knows. But he’s independent. In that sense, he’ll make decisions — not without pressure here and pressure there — but he will listen and then he will make his decision. If you saw, when we met on Friday, at the end of the line, he started business immediately. It was even surprising for me.
Did he ask you for your dossiers [on candidates for episcopal appointment]?
Absolutely! I will not go into the details but he was gesturing with determination.
[This is reminiscent of the recollectrion of Chicago's Cardinal George about when he first approached the newly elected Benedict in the Sistine Chapel to render his homage - and Benedict said to him, "I will not forget what we talked about", referring to a conversation they had before the Conclave about what needed to be done regarding the problem of sex offender priests in the United States.]
What is your hope for the Church in Canada?
I hope for a Year of Faith that will make a difference. And we have two or three things that will make a difference.
The renunciation of Pope Benedict was a great act of faith on his part. He did that with spiritual discernment; he wasn’t forced. Other popes have been exiled, they’ve been killed, they’ve been forced to renounce. He did it being aware of his limitations so a successor could do it better.
For our country, it forces a reflection on what is the Catholic faith, what is our heritage, what is our Church. And maybe, a sort of revision. I think there will be an awakening among the youth. I’ve seen that already in some — they’re not against it, they’re just not aware of what is the Catholic faith.
But there will be, I hope, a movement of conversation, because we need to retrieve that if we want to make sense of our presence in this continent. We must be proud of having an American pope — American in the broad sense.
If you have not already read it, please see George Weigel's article on Pope Francis whom he interviewed at length in May 2012 for his new book on Evangelical Catholicism
www.catholicsun.org/2013/03/20/meeting-pope-francis/
Unless he already lists all those virtues in his book, one cannot count out the ex-post-facto factor in his profile of Pope Francis. Does this mean we can look forward to a 'God's Choice, Part 2' - or perhaps 'God's Real Choice' (as in 'the cardinal-electors read the signals wrong in 2005')?
BTW, Andrea Tornielli has beat everyone from the get-go with a biography on Pope Francis, "Francis: Pope of a New World" which is already available in English from Ignatius Press.
Two more oddities in these odd times:
Sandro Magister, in an article on Pope Francis. opens with this paragraph:
In the 1,330 words of the homily at the Mass for the beginning of the pontificate of Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the word “pope” appears only one time. The name of Peter four times. What dominates instead, twelve times, is the name of Joseph. That the office of “guardian” of the Holy Family personified by the putative father of Jesus should have been taken as emblematic of the papal function is another of the particularities of his debut by the successor of Benedict XVI.
But of course, Mr. Magister, Joseph is mentioned 12 times because the Pope's Inaugural Mass was the Mass for the Solemnity of St. Joseph! A day chosen for the inauguration even if it was not Sunday, because first, St. Joseph is fittingly the Patron of the Universal Church, and secondly because the first possible Sunday would have been March 24, which is Palm Sunday, a solemnity that cannot be superseded.
And Greg Kandra on his blog 'The Deacon's Bench' features the official photo of Pope Francis as released by the Vatican. Kandra captions it - 'No gold, no mozzetta, no stole'. Here below is the new photo, and alongside it, the official photo of Benedict XVI that the Vatican never changed although it was clearly taken before his inauguration because he is still wearing his cardinal's ring and cardinal's pectoral.
In other words, Deacon Kandra, Benedict XVI did not 'dress up' for the occasion either, any more than Pope Francis who is shown wearing his cardinal's pectoral. Enough already of this sanctimony, all done in the name of the new Pope who we can be sure does not share it!
[Modificato da TERESA BENEDETTA 21/03/2013 14:19]