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21/10/2018 21.28
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Utente Gold


If you still are not convinced of Jorge Bergoglio's unmitigated hubris and intractable belief that he alone knows it all and better than anyone else, consider one of his latest assertions. I thank Mark Lambert for picking up on this - it was something I had noted in someone ele's commentary earlier and had meant to look up further and follow up on, but failed to do so. Here's Lambert...

Pope Francis:
'God wants me to change the Church'

by Mark Lambert

October 20, 2018

In private meeting with Jesuits on his recent trip to the Baltics, Pope Francis said: "I believe the Lord wants a change in the Church. I know that the Lord wants the [Second Vatican] Council to make headway in the Church."

The assertion from Pope Francis comes in a transcript by fellow Jesuit, legendary Papal tailgater & anti-intellectual Antonio Spadaro in the magazine he edits. You can read the whole thing here,
but I warn you, it is very boring, and consists largely of Pope Francis' usual meaningless banal mutterings. It does start with this weirdness:

Thank you for the visit! I’m reminded of the saying Si cum Iesuitis itis, non cum Iesu itis… (If you go with the Jesuits, you won’t go with Jesus…) [here they all laugh].

Obviously I was immediately reminded of his quip that he is the devil compared with Pope St. John Paul II. Personally, given what a nightmare he is as a pope, I don't find his attempts at self-deprecating humour terribly amusing and they have me wondering how seriously he is actually being.

The article continues with Spadaro's introduction of a question to the pope:

A young Lithuanian Jesuit who did his theological training in Africa asks: “When you were elected pope I was studying theology. Three years ago when I was ordained priest, you became a source of inspiration for my life as a Jesuit priest. You have given so much to the Church. I want to ask you how we can help you.”
Pope Francis responds:
Thank you! I don’t know what to ask from you specifically. But what needs to be done today is to accompany the Church in a deep spiritual renewal. I believe the Lord wants a change in the Church. I have said many times that a perversion of the Church today is clericalism. But 50 years ago the Second Vatican Council said this clearly: the Church is the People of God. Read number 12 of Lumen Gentium.

I know that the Lord wants the Council to make headway in the Church. Historians tell us that it takes 100 years for a Council to be applied. We are halfway there. So, if you want to help me, do whatever it takes to move the Council forward in the Church.
And help me with your prayer. I need so many prayers.

My first thought is change to what?
- If the Pope has a direction in mind, it seems, from all the evidence to be towards an adoption of the liberal attitudes to the Gospel message we can already observe in other Christian communities.
- I can't think of anything the Pope has mentioned that hasn't already played out across the world, so what can be said of these changes? Well what we know iS they make Church goers disappear faster than a bowl of Maltesers at a Weight Watchers meeting.

My second thought was that the Pope's interpretation of the documents of Vatican II must be very different from the one I was taught, if he thinks that the council has not made any headway in the Church.

If you feel slightly puzzled by talk of the effect of Vatican II in the Church, I could recommend a couple of books. How Far Can You Go by David Lodge is a witty and clever look at the change in Catholic attitudes during the turbulent years of the council. It takes a fairly objective view, but in doing so, it documents the exodus from holy orders and the rout of beliefs, as well as the embracing of more bohemian attitudes and beliefs and their integration into mainstream Catholic practice.

Another really useful and well written book is The Worlock Archive by Clifford Longley which documents the diary of one of the main architects of the present Catholic hierarchy in England and Wales during Vatican II.

Anyone who has read these books will recog the huge difference in the pre-Vatican II Church and the post Vatican II Church. Many of the changes we find in comparing the two are found nowhere in the actual documents of Vatican II.

Juxtapose this fact with what we have seen since with regard to vocation and growth.
- The more extreme "Spirit" of Vatican II devotees have no vocations and empty Churches.
- Protestantise the Catholic Church and people will soon discover that Protestants do Protestantism much better than we do.

Let's do what the Holy Father suggests and look at LG12:

12. The holy people of God shares also in Christ's prophetic office; it spreads abroad a living witness to Him, especially by means of a life of faith and charity and by offering to God a sacrifice of praise, the tribute of lips which give praise to His name.(110)

The entire body of the faithful, anointed as they are by the Holy One,(111) cannot err in matters of belief. They manifest this special property by means of the whole peoples' supernatural discernment in matters of faith when "from the Bishops down to the last of the lay faithful" (8*), they show universal agreement in matters of faith and morals.
- That discernment in matters of faith is aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth.
- It is exercised under the guidance of the sacred teaching authority, in faithful and respectful obedience to which the people of God accepts that which is not just the word of men but truly the word of God.(112)
- Through it, the people of God adheres unwaveringly to the faith given once and for all to the saints,(113) penetrates it more deeply with right thinking, and applies it more fully in its life.

It is not only through the sacraments and the ministries of the Church that the Holy Spirit sanctifies and leads the people of God and enriches it with virtues, but,
- "allotting his gifts to everyone according as He wills,(114) He distributes special graces among the faithful of every rank. By these gifts
- He makes them fit and ready to undertake the various tasks and offices which contribute toward the renewal and building up of the Church, according to the words of the Apostle: "The manifestation of the Spirit is given to everyone for profit".(115)
- These charisms, whether they be the more outstanding or the more simple and widely diffused, are to be received with thanksgiving and consolation for they are perfectly suited to and useful for the needs of the Church.

Extraordinary gifts are not to be sought after, nor are the fruits of apostolic labor to be presumptuously expected from their use; but judgment as to their genuinity and proper use belongs to those who are appointed leaders in the Church, to whose special competence it belongs, not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to that which is good.(116)

LG 12 sits within the second Chapter of the constitution. In order to provide some context, we can say that Lumen gentium teaches a Christocentric ecclesiology and this is the foundation for the constitution’s treatment of the four notes of the Church.

Chapter One takes up the Church’s supernatural unity. Because Christ is the eternal Son, communion with Him is communion with the entire Trinity. At the same time, this communion has a horizontal dimension. All who are united with Christ, the Head of the Mystical Body, are thereby united among themselves.

The Church’s catholicity is the subject of Chapter Two. Because Christ’s love and mission are universal, so the Church’s missionary love extends to all men. Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah, and the fruit of His mission is the establishment of a messianic people, the Church. In union with Him, the members of this people share in His anointing and thus in His mission. Baptism confers the dignity of being prophet, priest, and king in Christ.

The Church’s vocation to be the light for the nations entails the duty on the part of the all the faithful to open themselves to Christ’s transforming love so that the world can see what humanity looks like when its full potentiality is realised in communion with God in Christ.

Directly referring to LG 12, Pope Benedict XVI said:

This gift, the sensus fidei, constitutes in the believer a kind of supernatural instinct that has a connatural life with the same object of faith.
- It is a criterion for discerning whether or not a truth belongs to the deposit of the living apostolic tradition.
- It also has a propositional value because the Holy Spirit does not cease to speak to the Churches and lead them to the whole truth.

Today, however, it is particularly important to clarify the criteria used to distinguish the authentic sensus fidelium from its counterfeits. In fact,
- it is not some kind of public opinion of the Church, and
- it is unthinkable to mention it in order to challenge the teachings of the Magisterium,
because the sensus fidei cannot grow authentically in the believer except to the extent in which he or she fully participates in the life of the Church, and this requires a responsible adherence to her Magisterium.

What is essential is, as is constantly talked about in relation to Pope Francis, that the Magisterium informs us of what the Church teaches; the faith deposited by the Revelation of Jesus Christ is not something that can be discerned by inward reflection. It is a word spoken; a message passed on.

"Faith comes from what is heard", says St. Paul (Rom 10:17), speaking to the fundamental difference between faith and philosophy.
- Faith comes from hearing, not from reflection, like philosophy.
--It is not the thinking out of something that can be thought out, so that at the end of the process, it is then at my disposal as the result of my thought.
- Rather it is a characteristic of faith that it comes from hearing, that is the reception of something that I have not thought out, so that ultimately, thinking in the context of faith is always a thinking over of something previously heard and received.

In philosophy the thought proceeds the word (after all it is the product of the reflection that one then tries to articulate), but with faith the word precedes the thought.
- Faith comes to man from outside, and this is fundamental to it.
- It means that it cannot be treated and changed as I please.
- Iit is always foreordained, always ahead of my thinking. [for more on this read Ratzinger, J., Introduction to Christianity, Ignatius, 2004 p. 91ff.).

The point is the Pope seems to be - that's generous, he is pretty obviously doing it, to be honest - constantly pushing 'the primacy of conscience'. This is a relativist position which has never been a part of Church teaching and has been categorically condemned consistently by the Magisterium. It does highlight a widespread criticism of Vatican II; namely that some have exploited ambiguities in the documents of the council to spread heresy.

The way the Pope approaches the problem is also very frustrating.
- He doesn't appear to understand the theology, he offers no insights or theological arguments for his position, which, to the majority of learned faithful is clearly in error.
- His position seems to be that whatever people choose to believe is correct and this citing of LG 12 would seem to be in that vein as well...But it is objectively an error.

A Catholic friend, no student of theology, said to me last night,"Surely they are supposed to have much more theological training than me. I mean even I can see that this is a load of bloody crap." And that sums it up really. Are they still fooling you?

As Michael Matt said in this video, more and more Catholics are waking up to the problems under Francis and are embracing Tradition. Priests, bishops even. It could be that this is why this [the Church's Bergoglio ordeal] is happening; to wake us all up and show us the truth.
[Modificato da TERESA BENEDETTA 22/10/2018 02.52]
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21/10/2018 21.45
Post: 32.283
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Registrato il: 20/01/2009
Utente Gold

I haven't posted much from Massimo Introvigne since Bergoglio became pope because he quickly showed he was as agile and fickle as all the sudden turncoats one had believed to have been genuinely orthodox Catholics judging from their 'enthusiasm' at the time for Benedict XVI. But in his capacity as head of CESNUR, a center for the sociological study of religions, he may offer some useful information and insights. As in this surprising report on the situation of the Church in China after the Vatican's secret deal with Beijing.

Schism in the Chinese Catholic Church?
Perhaps it will come from the left

by Massimo Introvigne

October 20, 2018

The agreement between China and the Vatican on September 22, 2018, was widely criticized by conservative Catholics, who saw in it a victory of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and a sell-out of the Vatican.

Some observers believed that, dissatisfied with the agreement, the most conservative anti-CCP Chinese Catholics may not accept to be part of a unified Catholic Church in China, resulting from a merger between the pro-government Patriotic Association and the pro-Vatican Underground Church, which had been bitter rivals for decades, and promote a schism.

There are now indeed signs of a possible schism in Chinese Catholicism. But they do not come from the conservatives. As AsiaNews reported, an association of members of the Patriotic Association hostile to the merger with the Underground Church is taking shape.

In Lanzhou, in Gansu Province, the local bishop, Mgr Joseph Han Zhihai, became president of the local Patriotic Association and vowed to convert it into an instrument of resistance to any agreement implying the recognition of Vatican leadership over the Chinese Catholic Church. Han Zhihai was originally a bishop in the Underground Church, who later moved to the Patriotic Association.

AsiaNews reported that “the meeting of representatives of the Patriotic Association was held in Lanzhou on September 29 and 30, in the presence of Xian Daming, of the United Front Department. After the congratulations on the election of Msgr. Han Zhihai, the latter made a speech in which he once again stressed that the Church of Lanzhou ‘must adhere to the principles of independence and autonomy,’ ‘love the homeland and (in the second place) love the Church,’ ‘knowingly accepting the guide of the Chinese Communist Party,’ ‘carrying out religious activities according to the law.’”

The Patriotic Association is understandably worried that, in case of a merger, the lavish lifestyle of its bishop and the immoral conduct of some of them may come under Vatican scrutiny. The local United Front’s attitude confirms that, within the CCP itself, different attitudes coexist with respect to the Vatican deal.

[Modificato da TERESA BENEDETTA 22/10/2018 00.25]
22/10/2018 02.17
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Utente Gold

I have really been 'following' the reportage on the 'youth synod' with a pall of dread I cannot dispel because I cannot face another Amoris laetitia
distortion/rejection of Catholic doctrine, and this time, to reinforce the tsunami of universal LGBTQ exaltation indulged in by the secular world
especially in the West. The AP's report today decidedly points in that direction, even if initial reports from the synodal working groups appear
to indicate that most of the synodal fathers are, at the very least, hesitant to take that line...

Young Catholics urge Vatican
to issue inclusive LGBT message

by Nicole Winfield

VATICAN CITY, October 21, 2018(AP) — Catholic bishops are entering their final week of debate over hot-button issues facing young Catholics, including how the church should welcome gays and respond to the clerical sex abuse scandal that has discredited many in the church hierarchy.

The monthlong synod of bishops ends next Saturday with the adoption by the 260-plus cardinals, bishops and priests of a final document and approval of a separate, shorter letter to the world’s Catholic youth.

Some of the youth delegates (What percentage of the youth delegates is 'some'? Less than 50% would not be impressive at all!]) to the meeting have insisted that the final document express an inclusive message to make LGBT Catholics feel welcome in a church that has often shunned them. [Is there any documentary and statistical evidence at all that 'the Church' in general has 'shunned' anyone, other than setting down restrictions on valid canonical grounds such as formal excommunication or exclusion from the sacraments? Restrictions which, however, are more honored in the breach than in the observance, as everyone knows (the most obvious being the Eucharistic restriction on politicians who abet and support abortion). And surely, there are no canonical laws on the books that have to do with LGBTQ persons (if only for the simple reason that the Church only classifies individuals as male or female, and not as to their sexual orientation because Catholicism does not classify individuals in that way even if the Catechism clearly says that homosexual practices are sinful. Note that the Church condemns the sin, not the sinner, as it has always done, because sinners can choose to amend their ways and live right.

The Vatican took a step in that direction by making a reference to “LGBT” for the first time in its preparatory document heading into the meeting.

But some bishops have balked at the notion, including Philadelphia Archbishop Charles Chaput, who insisted in his speech that “there is no such thing as an ‘LGBTQ Catholic’ or a ‘transgender Catholic’ or a ‘heterosexual Catholic,’ as if our sexual appetites defined who we are.”

But other bishops have expressed a willingness to use the language, though it remains to be seen if the final document or the letter will. Each paragraph will be voted on one by one and must obtain a two-thirds majority.

“The youth are talking about it freely and in the language they use, and they are encouraging us ‘Call us, address us this because this is who we are,’” Papua New Guinea Cardinal John Ribat told a press conference Saturday.

One of those young people, Yadira Vieyra, who works with migrant families in Chicago, said gays often feel attacked and shunned by the church. “We know that’s not true, any Catholic knows that’s not true,” she said. But she added bishops need to communicate that “the church is here for them.”

Catholic church teaching holds that gays should be loved and respected but that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered.”

The Oct. 3-28 synod has unfolded against the backdrop of the clergy sex abuse scandal exploding anew in the U.S., Germany, Poland and other nations. Some conservatives have charged that a gay subculture in the priesthood is to blame, even though studies have shown that gays are not more likely than heterosexuals to abuse.

Many of the young delegates have insisted that the final document address the abuse scandal straight on, and Melbourne Archbishop Peter Comensoli hinted that it would.

“One of the key things that will be important going forward is not just that there might be a word of apology, of recognition and of aiming for better practices, but that there is action associated with that,” he said.

Chicago Cardinal Blase Cupich said young people are also demanding accountability and transparency from the church’s leadership, which has been excoriated for having covered-up the abuses of predator priests for decades.

He repeated his call, first made in an interview last week with National Catholic Reporter, for bishops to cede their own authority and allow an external process involving lay experts to investigate them when an accusation against them has been made.

“Lay people want us to succeed. People want us to get this right,” Cupich said. “Yes, there’s a lot of anger out there. But beneath that anger there’s a sadness. There’s a sadness that the church is better than this, and that we should get this right.”

Meanwhile, is there anything solid behind this speculation, which is probably the most alarming so far about Bergoglio's immediate intentions????

[Modificato da TERESA BENEDETTA 22/10/2018 02.37]
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