One might almost consider this interview some sort of a preview for Benedict XVI's booklength interview with Peter Seewald,
set to be published in early September...
How WYD Rio led Benedict XVI
to set a date for his renunciation
by ELIO GUERRIERO
Translated from
August 24, 2016
In Rome, the sky is full of threatening clouds but when I arrive at Mater Ecclesiae, the residence of the Emeritus Pope, an unexpected burst of sunlight exalted below the harmony of the dome on St. Peter's Basilica and the Vatican Gardens.
"My paradise," Benedict XVI had said about his residence in a previous visit.
I was brought to the salon which is also his private library and the title of a book by Jean LeClerq came to mind spontaneously,
Love of words and the desire for God, which Benedict XVI had cited in his famous address at the College des Bernardins in Paris in September 2008.
The Pope arrived after a few minutes and greeted me with the smile and courtesy he always has, and said, "I am at #15". I did not understand at first, then he said, "I have read 15 chapters".
I was frankly surprised. Some months earlier, I had sent him a good part of my manuscript [for a new book], but I never expected him to read it in full. I handed him the other chapters and said I was almost through. He said he was happy with what he had read so far, so I asked: "Would it be all right if I asked you a few questions as in an interview?"
He answered as always, kind and practical: "Ask me your questions, and later, send me what it looks like, and we shall see." Obviously, I have done as he asked. He then wrote me to say he agreed to its publication. I could only thank him again for his trust.
Holiness, when you visited Germany in 2011, you said, "We cannot renounce God" and that "There is a future where God is". Do you regret having given up the papacy during the Year of Faith? [Frankly, I do not see the connection between the citations and Benedict's renunciation.]
Of course, I would have wished to have seen the Year of Faith to its conclusion and to write the encyclical on faith that would have completed what I had started with
Deus caritas est.
But as Dante wrote, the love that moves the sun and other stars urges us and leads us to the presence of God who gives us hope and the future, In a critical situation, the best approach is to put oneself before God in order to find the faith to continue one's way in life. On his part, the Lord is happy to listen to our desire, to give us the light which guides us in our pilgrimage through life. This has been the experience of the saints, of San Juan de la Cruz and Santa Teresa de Jesus. In 2013, there were many commitments that I felt I could no longer fulfill.
What commitments were these?
In particular, the dates for World Youth Day in Rio de Janeiro had already been set for the summer. About this, I already had two firm convictions.
After the trip to Mexico and Cuba (in March 2012), I did not think I would be able to carry out such a demanding commitment. Yet John Paul II had instituted WYD in a way that the physical presence of the pope was indispensable.
It was unthinkable to merely have a TV link or other connections made possible by technology. This commitment was one of the circumstances that made me decide it was my duty to resign. I was confident that even without me, the Year of Faith would conclude well. Because faith is a grace, a gift from God to believers.
Therefore, I firmly believed that my successor, as it did turn out, would have brought the initiative I had taken to the conclusion desired by the Lord.
When you visited the Basilica of Collemaggio in L'Aquila [after the earthquake in March 2008], you left your inaugural pallium on the urn of St. Celestine V. Can you tell me when you decided you had to renounce the exercise of the Petrine ministry for the good of the Church?
For me, the trip to Mexico and Cuba was very beautiful and moving in many ways. In Mexico, I was very much struck to encounter the profound faith of so many young people, in experiencing what seemed to me a glorious passion for God. But I was also struck by the great problems of Mexican society, and to the commitment of the Church in Mexico to find, starting from the faith, a response to the challenges of poverty and violence.
In Cuba,
I was impressed by the way Raul Castro wished to lead his nation along a new road without breaking continuity with the immediate past. [With all due respect, I cannot understand why he would say anything of the sort! 'Continuity with the immediate past' in the context of Cuba is simply unthinkable!] But there, too, I was very impressed with the way my brother bishops sought to have the right orientation starting from the faith along this difficult process.
But during that trip, I truly experienced forcefully the limits of my physical resistance. Above all, I realized that I was no longer in a position to make long transcontinental flights because of the time change. Of course, I discussed all this with my doctor, Patrizio Polisca. And it became clear that I would not be able to fly to Rio de Janeiro for WYD in the summer of 2013 - during which the shift in time zone would be extreme. From then on, it was a question of deciding in a relatively short time on the date of my retirement.
After your retirement, many commentators were surprised - almost disappointed in fact - that you chose to remain within the 'fold' of St. Peter and live in Mater Ecclesiae. How did you come to this decision?
I had often visited the Mater Ecclesiae convent since its beginning [under John Paul II]. I often went to take part in Vespers or to celebrate Mass for the nuns who have occupied it successively
[a different order of contemplative nuns was chosen every five years to reside at the convent.] My last visit was on the anniversary of the foundation of the Order of the Visitation of Mary
[founded in 1610 by St. Francis de Sales] with the Visitation sisters then in residence.
In his time, John Paul II had decided that the building, which once served as the residence for the director of Vatican Radio, should become a place for contemplative prayer, a fountain of living water in the Vatican. Knowing that the Visitandines were completing their residence in the spring of 2012, it was a natural thought for me that it would be the place where I could retire in order to continue, in my way, the service of prayer for which John Paul II had intended it to be.
I do not know if you saw the photos taken, on the day you announced your renunciation, of lightning striking the dome of St. Peter's [The Emeritus nods to indicate he did].
To many, it suggested a sign of the collapse or even the end of a world. But allow me to say this now. Many had expected to commiserate with someone defeated by history, but I see a man who is serene and confident.
That I am. I would have been concerned if I were not convinced, as I said at the start of my Pontificate, that I am only a simple and humble worker in the vineyard of the Lord. From the very start, I knew my limitations, and accepted [his election as Pope] in a spirit of obedience, as I have sought to do all my life.
Then, of course, there were the difficulties, great and small, during the pontificate, but there were also so many graces. I knew that by myself I would not be able to do everything that I should do, and therefore, I had to place myself into God's hands, to trust in Jesus, to whom, as I wrote my book on him, I felt connected by ancient friendship that was increasingly profound.
Then there is the Mother of God, the mother of hope who represents reliable support in our difficulties, and whom I feel very close whenever I recite the Rosary and in my visits to Marian shrines.
Finally, there are the saints, my 'travelling companions' through life: St. Augustine and St. Bonaventure. my spiritual masters; St. Benedict whose motto "Never place anything before Christ" was a familiar reminder to me; and St. Francis, the Poverello fo Assisi, who was the first to show the world as the mirror of the creative love of God, from whom we came from and towards whom we are returning.
Only spiritual consolations?
No. I have been accompanied not just from above. Every day, I get many letters, not only from eminent men of the world, but mostly from humble and simple persons who want me to know that they are close to me and that they pray for me.
Therefore, even in difficult moments, I have had the confidence and certainty that the Church is led by the Lord, and that, therefore, I could put back into his hands the mandate he had entrusted to me on the day I was elected pope.
This support has continued every after my retirement, for which I can only thank the Lord and all those who have expressed and continue to show their affection.
In your farewell address to the College of Cardinals on February 28, 2013, you promised obedience to your successor. Meanwhile, I have the impression that you have also established a human closeness and cordiality with Pope Francis. How would you describe your relationship?
Obedience to my successor was never in question. But afterwards, there has been a feeling of profound communion and friendship. At the time he was elected, I felt, as did many, a spontaneous feeling of gratitude to Providence. That after two popes from Central Europe, the Lord had wished, as it were, to look on the universal Church and to invite us to a wide, more catholic communion.
Personally, I remain profoundly touched of the pope's extraordinary human accessibility where I am concerned. Shortly after he was elected, he sought to reach me by telephone. Having been unsuccessful, he tried again shortly after meeting the world for the first time as pope on the loggia of St. Peter's and he spoke to me with great cordiality.
From then on, he has made me the gift of a relationship that is marvelously paternal and fraternal. Often, I receive small gifts from him and personal notes. Before he leaves on his major trips, he has not failed to visit me. The human benevolence with which he treats me is a grace in this last stage of my life for which I can only be grateful. What he says about being accessible to others is not just words - he puts it into practice with me. May the Lord show him his benevolence every day - this is what I pray for him.
One must wonder whether Guerrero, the theologian who edits the Italian edition of Comunione, asked B16 what he thought about JMB's heterodoxies exemplified best by Amoris laetitia and his free-wheeling interviews. He probably did, but he may have chosen not to include it in the published interview.
The nearest thing we have to what B16 thinks about the state of the Church today is what Vittorio Messori reported after his only visit to him since the retirement. The emeritus asked him what was his view of the state of the Church, and after Messori had said what he had to say, B16 answered, "All I can do is pray".
However, all his expressions of appreciation for JMB's personal kindnesses to him - particularly his words in the Vatican during the brief ceremony marking the 65th anniversary of his priestly ordination - are being used by those hostile to him [and to JMB/PF as well] as proof that he unconditionally supports everything JMB/PF says and does. And that is most unfortunate, indeed. But even more unfortunate if he really did.
Without saying anything about what his successor says and does as Pope - which we understand he cannot do so openly if it meant any disapproval at all (but neither has he had any words of approval, as he scrupulously limits himself to commenting about JMB's benevolence towards him) - his personal gratitude so freely expressed for JMB's goodness towards him would seem to be a most selfish view, but by all accounts, Joseph Ratzinger has never been a selfish person. [Which is, of course, disputed by those who believe that he should have soldiered on as Pope to his dying day, regardless of how incapable he believed he was to do so.]
