Marie-Anne, Beatrice's friend who previously translated Michael Mandlik's biography of Benedict XVI from German to French for Beatrice's site,
has now done the same thing for a 2002 interview with Cardinal Ratzinger by Stefan von Kempis, an editor at the German service of Vatican Radio (shown in left photo). Thanks as ever to Beatrice...
The interview is appended as a CD to a new edition of Kempis's 2006 biography of the Holy Father. Obviously, Marie-Anne first had to transcribe it before she could translate, so we are doubly indebted to her.
An interview with the Cardinal
on his 75th birthday
Conducted by Stefan von Kempis
Translated to English
from the French translation
Your Eminence, you chose as your Episcopal motto, 'collaborators in truth'. All your life, you have sought to live by this. Can you tell us what is Truth?
It’s a difficult question. Pontius Pilate asked it of Jesus… To begin with, there is a subjective way to look at the truth: I say what I think. Then there is a subsequent step which is: What I say and what I think must correspond to a reality that is. That is to say, when my thought corresponds to an objective reality, then I am telling the truth.
But is it possible to think and say what is right? Is there a reality that transcends what is purely material and which, nonetheless, many people simply accept? We have become spiritually blind, and that is why such realities no longer leap to our eyes.
In the history of salvation, God has sought to open our eyes so that we can learn to see. The motto I chose refers principally to him who is Truth – Christ, through whom the invisible has been made visible to the world. And not only so that we may see Truth, but especially so that we can live by its criteria. Because faith is not a theory – it is, above all, a standard, a rule of life.
Since your youth, you have studied theology to better know Christ and his Church. In your current research, has there been a change of emphasis compared to the past?
Yes, but in continuity. Of course, there have been changes made necessary by the new challenges of our time. Fifty years ago, Christianity was still more or less stable in Western society, which is why at the time, the task of the Church was to see how we could improve society through our faith.
But today, the faith has practically been put aside. The figure of Christ has been reduced to its purely human dimension, a mentality reflected in naming him simply Jesus. God has been relegated to the private sphere.
The question these days is: Is there an objective reality beyond that which we can experience? Is it possible to arrive at knowing God? But if one cannot conceive the existence of God, then the consequence is that each one must invent his own life. This is why all questions must be posed much more radically today than 50 years ago.
You have often deplored the fact that the Church is too occupied with herself and is in danger of too much introspection. What would you advise the Church as it enters the third millennium?
According to Vatican-II, the Church should present herself as a window through which the world can have a glimpse of God. It should find the right language to speak about God to modern man. And those who work in the service of the Church should be believers themselves, first of all. It is very important to begin by cultivating one’s relationship with Christ in order to be able to bear witness to him. It is life which best gives witness, not words. And so it is important to live right!
According to many, the Sermon on the Mount, especially the Beatitudes, constitute a portrait of Christ. And you yourself have considered it as a program of action, a path to follow. And you have analyzed this text without equivocation, when you had the task of clarifying what the theology of liberation is all about. What is the message of the Sermon on the Mount for Christians today?
First of all, it is not a political formula. What it means is that we are in relation with the God whom we profess. And starting from that, we try to follow Christ in a radical fashion.
And I do think that the Beatitudes are, in effect, a kind of autobiography of Christ which reflect his own way. It is he who is truly poor, kind, peaceful, etc. Beyond the details, it is all about coming to Christ as closely as we can, to express communion with him by one’s life, allowing onself to be guided by him.
A few years back, it was fashionable to say, “Yes to Christ, No to the Church”. Today, they say, “Yes to Jesus, No to the Church’. What do you think of this? And how should one rightly frame the question of God these days?
Everything depends, of course, on the presence of God. But there are many atheists and agnostics who live their lives without bothering about the God question. Theological reflection today should consider this new lifestyle of non-believers, of the Godless.
The God question is not theoretical – God does not concern thought, as if he could have been invented by man. It has to do with experiencing God in one’s life.
In the Church, there are catechumenates who progressively introduce neophytes into the life of faith. What we need these days is to have places, like oases, in which people can dare together to experience God by living according to his standards. Then we shall be able to think and say, with our own reason, that God exists. But first, we must experience God as love.
Change of subject. Some think that at this time, ecumenism is rather shaky instead of making progress. What would you advise those who are engaged in this task? Can one imagine a time when all these problems will be resolved by the Church?
We know from our own personal experience that there are often insurmountable difficulties in life. A history of several centuries cannot be changed without some pain. I would say above all that we must be patient. Without making calculations aimed at obtaining quick success as they do in politics. We must not impose what we think on God. On the contrary, we must know that this has to do with his Church, not with a purely human institution, which is the case in political life.
Now, I shall ask you as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith a burning question: the role of women and the centralized government of the Church. It is often said that women should have a greater role in the life of the Church. Is the Church hostile to women?
If we review the long history of the Church, we will note the important role played by women. When I was a young professor, I recall hearing this complaint in a reverse sense – that the Church was too feminist with respect to men who felt slighted.
[????] I wish to say that the Church has always spoken to the heart of women, starting with the Mother of God, and through the great women saints, because the evangelical message seems to be much closer to women than to men.
And the second part of the question? That the government of the Church is too centralized?
The Pope exercises a fraternal collegiality with the bishops. For instance, with respect to the German bishops’ conference, the Holy See has used much patience in order to seek dialog, an agreement, a harmony…
[Von Kempis should have pressed him on this question. The answers to this two-part far-from-controversial question are uncharacteristically curt and uninformative, almost dismissive, for Cardinal Ratzinger!]
Now, some easier questions. What are the character traits that you appreciate most in others, and which you would like to have yourself? And do you have a fault that you would publicly admit?
What I welcome in others are – an openness without reservation, truth and sincerity, humor and goodness. I find affinity with persons who have these qualities which I hope I have myself. I am not in the habit of listing my own virtues, but I hope I practice what one calls the cardinal virtues – moderation, justice, prudence and strength. These are the standards I try to live up to, and it is by measuring up to them that I know my limitations.
As for my faults, those who work with me know them better than I do. Besides, I am not about to make a public confession. But I do have a failing which perhaps others cannot be aware as well as I am – and that is my preference for peace, for a life in retirement far from the public eye, in the idyllic world of being a professor. But the Lord calls me to order, and he corrects me so that I may always face my responsibilities.
What are your plans for the future? What do you look forward to?
After 25 years, I have learned not to make too many plans. But there is one thing that I want very much to do – and is, to write a book about Jesus Christ. If I could find time to do that, I would welcome it as a real gift.
What could Truth mean for those who do not see things with the eyes of faith and perhaps lack any faith at all? They too would like to get to heaven. Truth – eternity – life after death… These are concepts that are difficult to imagine and understand, even among believers. What are the bridges that can lead from reason to faith?
Of course they are difficult concepts to imagine. But there are so many things in life we cannot imagine but we know they exist. We also know that man’s deepest desires go far beyond the years that are given to him to live on earth. And that Love aspires to eternity, and it would be absurd if this aspiration cannot be realized.
But what does eternity mean? How can we imagine it in practical terms?
There are realities, like love and truth, to which we can cling even beyond death. If we rely on Christ, he will help us traverse even the dark night of death. And we can think that in eternity we shall find the fulfillment of all our aspirations down here – it will be happiness without end.
And is that a goal which common mortals can achieve?
Yes, it is possible when we hold on to love in our life. Then, we look forward to seeing once again those whom we loved down here. And we will finally be truly at home! It is where our thirst for love will finally be quenched.
Let us go back to the idea of freedom. In Scripture we read that ‘the truth shall make you free’. Can you tell us about this liberating power of the truth?
Freedom does not mean that one can always do whatever comes to mind, but that interiorly, man lives according to what he truly is. Let us imagine ourselves caught within a net – which means we can no longer live as we really are, that one cannot do what is right but only keep up appearances, which is the opposite of truth. And this will lead us endlessly to new dependencies. That is the case with the man who does not live by valid standards, who does not live according to who he is.
On the other hand,
when we follow Christ, we are liberated from false values to the point where not even heavy blows from public opinion can really hurt us. What counts is that we live doing what is right and good. If I do that, I know am on the right path, free of all other dependencies which are nothing more than appearances.
Can religion cohabit with fanaticism?
Alas, this happens every time a believer identifies himself with the God whose religion he professes, when one believes that God will take the course of history in his hands. Against this wrong use of the idea of God, there is a remedy.
One must look at the Crucified Lord. That is the true image of God. Whoever looks at the God who allowed himself to be killed for our sake cannot then believe in fanatical ideas. Looking at him, we learn what is true life, and how we too can serve peace in this world.
Can one confuse fanaticism with an aspiration for the Absolute?
Not at all.
But let’s turn to another subject. The recent publication of the document Dominus Iesus alienated many Catholics. What is the true significance of this document?First of all, it is the courage to admit that we did not invent God. He showed himself to us in Jesus so that we would not be tempted to confuse ourselves with false gods. And humbly, but without false modesty he makes us accept this revealed face of God.
We do not have the right to say that everything is relative, that everything is equally valid, because God has an absolute character. Consequently, we cannot behave according to the whim of the moment, doing as we wish – because God has revealed to us what Truth is.
The document does not have to do with presenting a kind of fanaticism with respect to other religions, but it is true that my acceptance of God places a limit to my own will. It gives me a standard to live by, thanks to which a light can infiltrate into the world to help us live right.
The Church obviously should not betray the mission entrusted to her by Christ. Do you see any danger of this happening with inter-religious dialog?
Whenever I carry on a dialog with anyone, I can understand him better, more or less. If we look at the person of Christ as he appears in the Gospel of John, he declares Truth – he is revealed Truth.
In inter-religious dialog, we should listen to the other so we can go as far as possible with him in the same direction. But mission also demands that I should be understood by the other. And I must be able to recognize, in some way, traces of Christ in his religion. At the same time, I must note what it is about the other religion that needs to be corrected from the Christian point of view.
Thus dialog is necessary, first because it is part of missionary work. But there must be a second stage which has no other intention but to proclaim the truth of Christ.
The problem begins when one turns dialog into ideology, to the point of renouncing oneself, as if the religion of the other fully corresponds to my own faith.
One last question. Who is Jesus Christ, for you?
He is the reference according to whom I try to live, carrying on a dialog with him. He relieves me every time I confess to him that I am helpless. He always puts me back on the right track. And I marvel how much he gives me confidence, accepting me as I am, so that I can continue along the way with Him.
I am reminded of a film in which the main character had a conversation with the Crucified Christ. Of course, for me, it takes place in far less spectacular fashion but at a level not any less profound.
I try to live a Christian life in a way that I can truly listen to him. And when he corrects me from time to time, he also gives me the courage to stay upright so I can start anew and to do a bit better in the future. I know that he is good, and that his strictness does not detract from his goodness. He will never let me down, nor let me fall down, and with him I can continue on my way with full confidence.
One can deduce the market for books on and by Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI in the German-speaking world from Von Kempis's output alone: Since Von Kempis came out with his first book on Benedict XVI in February 2006, he has since published seven others, the latest one in January 2010. Grundkurs in February 2006, was a primer on Benedict XVI's thought; the Biographie was published In August 2006, along with Zur Liebe Geschaffen (Made for Love), a collection of writings on marriage and the family. In September 2007, Das Lexikon; von Ablass zu Zolibat (The Lexicon: From indulgence to celibacy), collating important citations related to 130 key words in Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI's pastoral and theological vocabulary, and Die Liebe Gottes begleitet uns (God's love is with us), a collection of meditations for everyday. In 2008, two more books: Maria: Mutter Gottes, bitte fuer uns [Mary, Mother of God, pray for us), a picture book on Benedict XVI's visits to various Marian shrines up to then; and Die Heilige Schrift: Meditationen zur Bibel (Sacred Scripture: Meditations on the Bible), containing published reflections on Biblical texts. And in January 2010, Worte der Hoffnung und Ermutigung, a selection from Benedict XVI's writings and discourses on faith, hope and charity.
[Modificato da TERESA BENEDETTA 01/11/2010 17:28]